So I had the misfortune of being away when outkastland sold his Motorino.
Lucky me someone I know bought it so I was able to test it out, and it was really impressive.

I'm going to buy a Motorino XPh (and I believe) there is just one dealer in Toronto:

http://www.eprider.co...


OPTIONS

2011 Model: $2,295
-comes with a air compressor, rain cape and scooter cover.
-power adapter

2010 Model (currently in stock): $2100
-comes with rain cape and e-scooter cover

BATTERY
Standard is 48V 20Ah SLAVR

A Lithium Li Po 48 V 20 Ah is about $1000
A Lithium Li Po 48 V 30 Ah is about $1600


I'm just debating which battery now...

Most likely the 2010 model.

Will most likely go with lithium, just a quick refresher 30 Ah would just give me a range boost right? (a little pricey)

BATTERY
Standard is 48V 20Ah SLAVR
A Lithium Li Po 48 V 20 Ah is about $1000
A Lithium Li Po 48 V 30 Ah is about $1600
I'm just debating which battery now...
Most likely the 2010 model.
Will most likely go with lithium, just a quick refresher 30 Ah would just give me a range boost right? (a little pricey)

Hey D... Ask `em exactly watt LiPo chemistry they are selling? Li-manganese? In other words, how many cycles can ya expect from the pack... 500? 600?

Don't forget, ya nEVer see 20Ah out of a 20Ah-rated lead pack... At ebike discharge rates probably only 16Ah... while Lithium isn't affected this way, so a 20Ah Li pack should get you about 25% better range than 20Ah of lead.

If they're asking a $1000 premium for Li over lead, same Ah's, seems a bit "rich" to me. A 48V 20Ah LiFePO4 pack these daze might be about $1000 w/charger, possibly less, while four 12V 20Ah batts might be $400 (all prices retail) so I'd want to know why they are asking $1000 when the pack cost diff. is only maybe $600.

Lock

If they're asking a $1000 premium for Li over lead, same Ah's, seems a bit "rich" to me. A 48V 20Ah LiFePO4 pack these daze might be about $1000 w/charger, possibly less, while four 12V 20Ah batts might be $400 (all prices retail) so I'd want to know why they are asking $1000 when the pack cost diff. is only maybe $600.

Lock

Thanks for all the help Lock, from the way he explained on the phone (planning to swing by there today or tomorrow), that price is with me getting to *keep* the lead; potentially to sell elsewhere, or to make a deal with them. Labour also included.

That would match up with the ~$600-700 quotes I get elsewhere

that price is with me getting to *keep* the lead; potentially to sell elsewhere, or to make a deal with them. Labour also included.

That would match up with the ~$600-700 quotes I get elsewhere

Tell them to keep the SLA's and quote you the price without.

Here's another Motorino dealer in Markham that was at the EV show last week in The Distillery - no idea on their prices.
http://www.stationski...

Wow. You must reeeeally love the environment. For the price of that Motorino and the lithium bat, you could get a nice, brand new 2011 model gas scooter, take a motorcycle safety course, buy gear and insure it and gas it for a year.

Wow. You must reeeeally love the environment. For the price of that Motorino and the lithium bat, you could get a nice, brand new 2011 model gas scooter, take a motorcycle safety course, buy gear and insure it and gas it for a year.

~$2500 ?

Probably pushing it there, but its the parking that kills. York is about 1200 for the cheapest (far) lot. And I have to admit, I felt a huge difference in torque between this and the X series I tried at EMMO. (this is $400 more though)

Wow. You must reeeeally love the environment.

I parked my last car about the time my family doctor explained that my young daughters had lung problems because of urban air quality. Or are our children and their children not part of your environment?

Hey D,

I was comparing the lithium pack you had in bold + the 2010 Motorino bike. So the number I was shooting for was 2100 + 1600 = 3700$.

And I just did the math, and it turns out that whether I'm exaggerating will really depend on what kind of insurance rates you can get, so you might not have to leave out the gas to hit that price number, depending on what kind of quote you get.

The price I'm using for the bike is Motoretta's listed price on the website, they often have better deals if you actually go into the shop, so if that's the case I might not be exaggerating... but for the sake of argument we'll use the website price.

- Aprilia SportCity 50 (same manufacturer as the well known Vespa, so it's not a piece of junk) new so you get a nice warranty: $1995

- M1 license paper test at a Drivetest center: 15$

- Humber motorcycle course ('Scooter B' version, for scooters, includes safety training (insurance discount) and M2 license): $333.34

- Snow City usually has a small rack of nice DOT half-helmets on sale for 50$ and up, usually Bell/HJC brands, so they're not no-name junk brands or anything. I'm sure the situation's the same at other bike accessory shops, so: 50$

- Pick one of the less fancy AlpineStars jackets, mesh and textile with plastic armour plates in the shoulders and elbows and removable liner: 150$

- Gloves, again pick whichever ones are on sale and not junky looking. You'll be able to find something suitable for 50$.

So, 2593$ so far.

For insurance, I don't really know your personal details, so I used mine (26 years old, M2 license less than a year ago, no prior license (never driven a car) or insurance history, approved safety course (Humber), and a North York Postal code). With comprehensive coverage (i.e., includes fire & theft) they were quoting 1100$ and change.

So if you're similar to me, the total's now at 3693$.

So, that doesn't include gas. Again, I don't know your personal details so let's assume you're mainly using this to get to work 5 days a week and that you work downtown and commute from the 'burbs - so, a 20 km commute. Let's say you don't let a little rain or cold stop you and you ride from March until the ice hits the roads (personally I stopped in the first couple of days of December, so we'll say November: nine months.

9 months * 5 days a week * 4.33 weeks in a month average * 20 km each way * 2 ways = 7794 km a year.

Googling suggests that an Aprilia SportCity gets about 100 mpg, which works out to about 42.51 kilometers per litre.

So, 7794/42.51= 183.34 litres of gas. At today's gas price (paid $1.24 a liter for 91, which this bike would take, today) that's $227.34 cents.

So... it really depends on what insurance rate you can get. If your me, the total WITH gas for a brand new scoot and a year's usage would be 3693+227.34, so we're at $3920.34 - a bit more than the Motorino, but I think you get a bit more for the money:

- Instead of a 32 kph top speed, you get a 75 kph or so top speed.

- You get a machine designed by a well known scooter and motorcycle company with a long history and good
reputation.

- You get a 320 km range instead of maybe a 70-80 km range with that lithium pack (Guesstimate - Lock, wanna do the math on a 30ah lithium pack on the bike D's looking at?).

- You have insurance in case anything bad happens to the bike. Ebikes and scooters are both pretty small and easy to lift into a van, but if your ebike gets stolen you're, pardon my language, fucked. If the scooter gets stolen your insurance company will reimburse you and you can replace it.

Parking for motorcycles and scooters is free in the city of Toronto, so I don't know why you're worried about that part.

Don't get me wrong, I like electrics too, and really wanna see better and higher quality ebikes come out for a good price, but those Motorino's ain't cheap, especially with the lithium batteries. If you're gonna get a cheap Chinese scooter (which those Motorino's still are on some fundamental level, even with the upgraded North American electronics) to zip around on that's great - but you can do it for a lot less money than that.

If you're considering spending as much as you are though, isn't it worth the extra $220.34* get 2.34 times the speed, 4-5 times the range and the benefit of insurance while you're at it?

* again, assuming your insurance quote is identical to mine.

Lock, I'm with ya on the cars - I hate those things. I'm a bit of an extremist on that front - I would totally be in favor of outright outlawing cars as personal vehicles in urban areas (i.e., 4 wheelers could only be registered/plated as commercial vehicles, with black plates).

I like all the two wheelers though (and the three wheelers if they lean, no Spyders please) - sometimes despite their power source.

ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, if the same bike with the same performance was presented to me in electric and gas versions, there's no doubt that I'd be all over the electric one - both for environmental and practical reasons.

But this usually isn't the case yet... it's getting better, and it thrills me every time I see a new advance on that front - I just about wet my pants every time Brammo posts a new bike, and long for the day when the performance of electrics will rival or surpass that of stinky old dinosaur burners. But, sadly, I don't think that day's here quite yet. at the rate that companies like Brammo are going though... give it 4-5 years.

A lot of things are a part of my environment. There are children in it, sure, but there're also jobs, bank accounts and places to go. They're all important.

To the argument between gas and electric scooters, I think we should add the electric LSM scooters, like the coming Motorino GTx. It has a 1500W motor, 50Ah LiFePO4 battery, and has a top speed of 70kph.

You need license and issurance to ride one. It has speed similar to a 49cc scooter, has a much shorter range, but emits no harmful gas.