Okay at End of Month I am buying a 2nd Battery Case and new Batteries
This way I have 2 sets 1 for short Distance and 1 for long halls

I want to get some good Battires that last for awhile



Right now it use 48v 22 Hn Batteries
These right now get me around 15 to 20 KM

I wounder if I can go with more HM like 25 or 28

Hiya Thomas

Curious watt you mean to do here...

I see the 500C was offered in two versions:
http://www.enviro-bik...

...and their XLR bike added a second battery pack?

Battery Supply: (500C) 4 x 12V14Ah/20H
Battery Supply: (500C-XLR) 4 x 12V22Ah/20H
Battery Type: UL/Deep Cycle Sealed Lead Acid

Or was it only one larger pack, replacing the 14Ah w/a larger 22Ah pack? Not sure.

But watt are your plans? To swap the two packs, using one at a time, or adding the second pack to run both at the same time? And, if both at the same time, only one after the other using an A/B switch, or both packs at the same time in parallel?

Check the dimensions carefully for those gels eh? I see their smallest Ah size offered is 26Ah. Will they fit in the space where the old 22Ah batts were?

Back in May I didn't have much good to say about gets:
http://www.ebikerider...

Oddly they are offering "gel cell" lead-acid batteries for their "base" versions. The hobby electric car folks tried gels years ago and mostly discarded them `cause of voltage sag at high discharge rates. In other words slow accelerations and hill climbing...

...after that, the night of the Toronto Cyclist Union AGM I was walking home afterwards and stopped to peer in the windows at Amego. They were closed but I could see folks working at the back of the shop. And they let me in to look at their bikes anyway. Probably just fed up with my greasy nose-prints stuck all over their windows...

Seems like Amego is a partnership, and an older gent there seemed like he'd been in the ebike game for some time. I asked him about the gels and he swore up and down that they're great batteries. Well tested and respected... So I dunno watt to tell you. For sure Gels don't like high discharge rates, but for fairly low rates as with ebikes and not like full-sized cars, probably this helps things.

Lock

I want to get some good Battires that last for awhile

Then ya don't buy lead Thomas!

Right now it use 48v 22 Hn Batteries
These right now get me around 15 to 20 KM

I wounder if I can go with more HM like 25 or 28

Then ya need to basically double yer Ahs Thomas. With a larger pack the amp loads are spread thinner across the larger pack, so for lead-acid this'd mean more effective Ahs from the same pack, and ya could get away w/slightly less than 2x yer original Ah, but the other way to get "long life" is to buy bigger than you need at first, so as capacity reduces over the time ya still have useful capacity remaining.

And the other trick of course is to just slow down! Pedal to assist from stops and up hills. Hypermiling.

Lock

Lock and Fellow E-Bikers.

I like to find something Between Lead and Using Lithium Batteries

is there a Happy Middle for Batteries

Lithiums right now to cost to much for some one on a Pention to budget in Right now.
Lead Acid don't get enough Range .

I like to Budget for around 300 to 400 For Batteries
I'd Also like use the same Charger as Just brought a new one .

`Been thinkin' about this Thomas... If ya go w/lead, maybe a trailer with a second batt pack paralleled in w/yer main pack...

Plan B, ya need a more energy-efficient vehicle (Wh/km.) Pedal bike-style ebikes can burn about 1/2 the Wh/km of a scooter-style ebike, so for a given pack size (Wh) ya could double yer range...

Lock

The only thing available that is better than lead acid and cheaper than lithium is the Silicone batteries. They are essentially the same size and weight as lead acid, but have better characteristics all round. The price is somewhat the same as lead acid.

See the discussion over at the Gio board
http://gioebike.daily...

They appear only to have 12 Ah in stock but I understand others are available. There seems to only one supplier on this continent in the USA. If you order from them try to see if they ship USPS as UPS have onerous brokerage fees.
http://www.siliconeba...

Side by side comparison can be found here
http://www.solarlinep...
I do not know if they supply just the batteries, this is a Canadian company, as they did not return my email.

Just to be clear, "Silicone" batteries is marketing-speak. They are referring to the silica added to the electrolyte to make it "gel". In other words the generic name for these sealed lead-acid batteries is "gel" batteries, and they have been around a long time. They were the first of the "sealed" lead-acid batteries (no lead-acid battery is completely sealed.) They were largely supplanted by the use of AGM ("absorbed glass matt") batteries watt are so common today.

Most of the comparisons on that solarlinepower site do not say exactly watt batteries they are being compared with, and no real technical data is offered. They tout that the batteries can be used at below-freezing temps (true also of AGMs) but do not state watt capacity is lost. They also do not show capacity loss at high discharge rates due to Peukert's law watt are important at the high(er) discharge rates that ebikes incurr versus solar power installations.

Touting the tech as "...the very latest in energy storage technology..." and "...amazing innovative technology..."is just silly.

Lock

I did really not want to get into the chemistry of silicone batteries as there is not a lot of information available. It is a new technology that has been patented. Essentially you replace the sulphuric acid with a silicate electrolyte. It is referred to as low sodium silicate as too much sodium makes the electrolyte clump and makes the batteries hard to fill.

Basically these batteries are constructed similarly to lead-acid batteries. An uncharged lead-acid battery can be filled with the "silicone" electrolyte and function I understand. Of course these batteries are manufactured with the electrolyte in them, and I believe they are sealed.

I understand there was a patent dispute which slowed production as well as the company had enough market in China so really did not branch out to the west. YOu see a European motorcycle manufacturer use them instead of lead acid because of better performance at similar cost, as well as providing Lithium as a more expensive option.

The major advantages of Silicone are a high C discharge compared to lead acid, an increased number of charge cycles, more energy density, low temperature functionality (claims can be used to -40 degrees C, lead acid has long since pooped out by then) and can be left partially discharged with no ill effects (a problem with lead acid they must be recharged right away).

In the West, these batteries seem more to be called silicon batteries, when you can find them. They are patented and produced by a company called Greensaver. Here is a typical data sheet
http://www.greensaver...

I believe this is one of their patents
http://www.patentgeni...

I can find few reviews of the product, but they seem positive. As I have said before, there only seems one supplier in USA and he says he has difficulty getting product, so you will not find it, or rarely in North America. You can find it in an electric motorcycle in Europe
http://www.e-max-scoo...
the S models are silicon and the L models are lithium. I also found one mobility scooter manufacturer that uses silicon batteries.

You are confusing lead acid old style gelling agent fumed silica that apparently is also used to gel paint stripper with the silicate electrolyte that is used in silicon batteries. It is not the same thing. The electrolyte is not acid (other than some different types of acid to adjust pH) in silicon batteries.

http://www.greensaver... for more product information. Unfortunately some of these Chinese sites have various levels of Chinglish that have not been translated well.

Anyway... lead-acid batteries that suck slightly less than other lead-acid batteries. Oh Joy!

L0cK

It always seems to be a tradeoff on price vs performance. I see Lithium Phosphates being used in solar garden lights now, so maybe the prices will come down a bit. I am waiting for an nuclear battery. (I almost have one as half the electricity Ontario generates is nuclear. ) The only problem with the nuclear batteries is they cost a hundred thousand dollars each, and when they explode, they take out ten city blocks.

The cheapest lead acids I found come from
http://saskbattery.co...
If you go for the upgrades, you can fit some extra capacity in the same space for a few dollars more. When running 4 batteries it is like an extra battery capacity, i.e. 15 instead of 12, or 22 instead of 20. Free shipping too over a certain amount.
http://saskbattery.co...
Check your dimensions.