A week ago, I had an arguments with a female driver in related to misunderstanding road safety. At that time, I was on "T" road intersection, there was car in front of me turning left, and so was I. As a ebike rider, I took a right side of her vehicle to turned right also. When the traffic was safe to cross, we both turned left, side by side.
At 100 meter a head, there was a red light. At this time, I was behind her car and slowly tried to pass her on the right side to turned right. Purposely, she narrowed the gap between her car and the curb, so its blocked my way and I could not passed her by. She started commenting the way I ride. She said that as a moving vehicle, I must stayed behind the car instead going on the right side of the car. So, we argued and I asked her the definition of ebike. I told her to fuck off and told her to read the policy before making comments.
As my understanding, ebike is consideree a power assisted bicycle. So, is riding on the right side of the car still allowed?. Is there a definite regulation in regards ebikes riding policy on the road. Does anyone knows if there is an ebike riding manual/safety booklets?.

Thanks a lot.

She said that as a moving vehicle, I must stayed behind the car instead going on the right side of the car.

Nonsense. eBikes should be handled just like pedal bikes (except the City By-law says ya can't use yer motor on the bike lanes, must be pedal-only - law needs to be fixed.) If you were on a pedal bike, would she have reacted the same way? No. She's an idiot.

Plenty of How To Cycle Safely info on the web if ya google... Toronto also offers adult Can-Bike courses.

Lock

Legal or not, it just doesn't seem like a good idea to ride to her right as she's making a left hand turn - if her turn's a bit wider than you expect, you're basically screwed and probably left laying on your side in the middle of an intersection.

I very frequently see cyclists taking the whole lane when making a left, which seems like smart cycling practice to me, and I can't see why this shouldn't apply on an e-bike as well.

The bike lanes, on the other hand - yeah, you should totally be permitted to use those and the law should get fixed.

Legal or not, it just doesn't seem like a good idea to ride to her right as she's making a left hand turn - if her turn's a bit wider than you expect, you're basically screwed and probably left laying on your side in the middle of an intersection.

I very frequently see cyclists taking the whole lane when making a left, which seems like smart cycling practice to me, and I can't see why this shouldn't apply on an e-bike as well.

The bike lanes, on the other hand - yeah, you should totally be permitted to use those and the law should get fixed.

I go along with you, that we should be behind the car when turning left, but we must also be allowed to ride on the right side of the car on the bike lanes, closed to the curb. The drivers must know to give a gap between the curbs and the car for at least 1,5 meters.

I will look for more information in regards the safety riding. Yet, I still feel we need to publish a booklets or flyer, etc, to dessiminated the information to the public, the drivers, and to the e-bikers. This information must be available everywhere, including the ebikes stores where the buyers, especailly the first time buyers or riders, will get better understanding how to ride ebikes safely.

Thanks for your comments.

From the perspective of a scooter style ebike rider, I would always try to take the full lane while stopped or slowing down at an intersection. This may be less clear cut for an open frame ebike, but no way I would be sharing a lane with another vehicle while doing a turn. The only time that two vehicles should be sharing a lane is when one is passing the other.

I've been meaning to drop in to this discussion for some time and now very glad I did. I would like to clarify a few matters of which I may have previously been mis-informed but first my story.

I ride a scooter style Motorino XPD. The Ruckus design. This is actually my second one as on June 9th I was turning left on to Bloor West from a side street and was clobbered from behind - My bike destroyed and myself injured.

At this point my feeling was that my machine felt like a vehicle, and out of some misplaced respect for cyclists, I would ride it as one. I used to ride motorcycles and carried myself in much the same way.

Basically what happened is that I was stopped at a T intersection - After traffic was clear I began my left turn. As I pulled in to the center turn lane I glanced to my right to confirm no new traffic had merged. At this point I heard an acceleration behind me - I looked back an the last thing I saw was a black car and a Honda emblem....Pow! She hit hard right between my frame and rear tire and continued to push me for maybe 10 or 15 feet. It split the bike up quite well. What happened is, she decided to turn left, while all the while looking right for traffic. She had no sense of what was in the direction in which she was accelerating - very quickly...

Ultimately she was charged, her insurance replaced the bike and I'm left with a very sore neck....(this is the trimmed version)

Not to let this event get the better of me I, as soon as I could, replaced the bike. Right off however, I was finding myself very anxious on the roads...Actually panicky might be a better word. My solution was to start doing what I thought was OK...Stay on the bike paths wherever possible....I've been riding on them for a while with some flack from cyclists...Even though I'm the one who rides slower and signals etc....All the time thinking this was OK.

Here's my problem - I'm rather sick of being clobbered by cars - ...So some questions:

- Am I allowed to ride on a bike path (Minor Multi-use Pathway - or any of them?) while being electrically powered ? The police don't seem to even glance but I'm not sure they really know either.

- Can I ride in the bike lanes, such as the ones on Dundas St. E. while under electric power?

- If not then I'm a vehicle? Then am I not entitled to a lane like any other vehicle? expecting that they pass me in another lane as any other vehicle? (since I'm moving much more slowly than they'd like)

- Is it legal for a car, on a regular roadway with no bike lane to pass me in the same, right-hand lane that I'm in?

- Then is it also illegal for me to pass a car along the curb on the right in the same lane when they are slower than me due to traffic?

- OK if I'm to ride down the center(ish) of the right lane and take up the space, should I then be telling all the honking motorists who don't like my 32km per hour to "piss off"?

- When making a left turn - Do I cross from right to left and make it from the turning lane like a motorcycle?

- Are the riding requirements different for the scooter style ebikes vs the bicycle style?

This is very confusing - Either I'm a cycle or a vehicle no?

If you cite some code that says I must stay out of the bike lanes and paths then this suggests that I should behave like a motor vehicle, and hence I should be telling anyone who complains about to go "make love to themselves" - Just not in those words....

I can't count the number of times that I've been riding along the right curbside and some car nearly clips me because they pass me in the same lane.

The introduction of these vehicles to me is one of the greatest things to happen to city transportation...ever! My 8km commute to work that previously took 60 to 70 minutes via Street-Car now takes me 20 minutes. I don't need to explain all the benefits here as we all know them. I am also certainly baffled by any resistance to these bikes....All should be embracing them.

I'm very proud that I'm denying the petroleum and insurance companies any more of my blood and sweat as well.

So - How do I comply with the law and remain safe? I feel caught between the cyclists and motorists - I could care less about pissing them off - But I need to know I'm in the right before I get of my bike and "learn-em'"

Thanks all.

Toronto_Joe

Hiya Joe

V.sorry to hear about your accident. Comments interspersed below:

Ultimately she was charged...

Failure to yield? Curious watt the charges were exactly...

My solution was to start doing what I thought was OK...Stay on the bike paths wherever possible....I've been riding on them for a while with some flack from cyclists...Even though I'm the one who rides slower and signals etc....All the time thinking this was OK.

Watt "bike paths"? Do you mean in the parks?

Basically the Citys Parks By-law says it's OK to ride "bicycles" in our Parks unless bicycles are forbidden by signs. The Parks By-law does not define watt a "bicycle" is except to say:
"BICYCLE — Includes a tricycle and unicycle but does not include a motor-assisted bicycle."

The By-law does not define "motor-assisted bicycle" but this is the wording used in the Ontario Highway Traffic Act for watt we call a "moped" and is quite distinct from the "power-assisted bicycle" aka "ebike".

Parks By-law (Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 608) here:
http://files.meetup.c...

Am I allowed to ride on a bike path (Minor Multi-use Pathway - or any of them?) while being electrically powered ? The police don't seem to even glance but I'm not sure they really know either.

Believe it or not Toronto has almost NO "bicycles paths" except in our Parks (see above.) Outside our Parks ie on City streets there's another By-law, Municipal Code Chapter 886 "Footpaths, Pedestrian Ways, Bicycle Paths and Bicycle Lanes", copy here:
http://files.meetup.c...


Most of the "action" around Chapter 886 is updates to it's appendix "Schedule D" watt lists the bike lanes, and is updated EVerytime Toronto adds (or removes) bike lanes, like here:
http://www.toronto.ca...

Schedule C of that same By-law lists "Bicycle Paths" and there is only ONE - the Martin Goodman waterfront trail.

Chapter 886 has it's own definition of "bicycle" and it is different than the Parks By-law:
"BICYCLE — Includes a bicycle, tricycle or other similar vehicle, but does not include any vehicle or bicycle propelled or driven by any power other than muscular power."

So this definition of bicycle in Chapter 886 has not been updated yet, and City staff are using this to declare that ebikes are permitted in Toronto bike lanes and on the Martin Goodman Trail but only as long as they are being pedalled and not using their motors...

- Can I ride in the bike lanes, such as the ones on Dundas St. E. while under electric power?

See above.

- If not then I'm a vehicle? Then am I not entitled to a lane like any other vehicle? expecting that they pass me in another lane as any other vehicle? (since I'm moving much more slowly than they'd like)

All wheeled conveyances on the road are "vehicles", some of which are "motor vehicles". "Power-assisted bicycles" are included in the definition of "bicycle" and specifically excluded from the definition of "motor vehicle" but many rules still apply whether ya are "motor vehicle" or a "bicycle".

- Is it legal for a car, on a regular roadway with no bike lane to pass me in the same, right-hand lane that I'm in?

From the Ontario Highway Traffic Act:
"Slow vehicles to travel on right side
147.(1)Any vehicle travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway."

and:
"Overtaking and passing rules
Vehicles meeting bicycles
148.(4) Every person in charge of a vehicle on a highway meeting a person travelling on a bicycle shall allow the cyclist sufficient room on the roadway to pass."

and:
"Bicycles overtaken
(6) Every person on a bicycle or motor assisted bicycle who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the vehicle or equestrian to pass and the vehicle or equestrian overtaking shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision."

- Then is it also illegal for me to pass a car along the curb on the right in the same lane when they are slower than me due to traffic?

Dunno! `Cept that cyclists do this all the time...

- OK if I'm to ride down the center(ish) of the right lane and take up the space, should I then be telling all the honking motorists who don't like my 32km per hour to "piss off"?

Again, you are a vehicle with the same rights and privileges. You are NOT restricted to bike lanes if there is one (in fact are banned from bike lanes if motoring) and cycling wisdom says to "Take The Lane" rather than the "gutter" if there is any reason to think the gutter will be unsafe, eg if the lane is narrow.

- When making a left turn - Do I cross from right to left and make it from the turning lane like a motorcycle?

Yes. Ya might "split" the left-turn lane by keeping to the right side (so now ya have cars both left and right of you) but don't do that. Take the whole lane.

- Are the riding requirements different for the scooter style ebikes vs the bicycle style?

No, not in legal terms. The only exception to this that I know of is that the Parks Dept. is trying to enforce a restriction that ebikes with wheel diameters less than 26" are not permitted on Island ferries (there is no logic behind this nor is it supported by any of the City by-laws.)

This is very confusing - Either I'm a cycle or a vehicle no?

No. See above. A `cycle is a vehicle.

I can't count the number of times that I've been riding along the right curbside and some car nearly clips me because they pass me in the same lane.

Obviously their understanding of watt it means to "...turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision" differs from yours. Note that other jurisdictions are now passing laws requiring that motor vehicles allow three feet of distance when passing...

So - How do I comply with the law and remain safe?

Encourage others to take to two wheels as well. Lotsa studies that show that the higher the percentage of vehicle traffic is two-wheeled, the safer it gets (as motorists finally wake up to the fact they are surrounded by cyclists...)

Lock

@ Lock That pretty much covers it.

@SAFARI GUNAWAN the original poster, it would freak me out if I was a car driver turning left and a bicycle (which is what you are) tracked me on my right blind side. I would be waiting for the "thump" that indicated the bicycle or rider was under my back wheel. Do yourselfs both a favour and do not do that whether is is legal or not.

There are several ways of turning left, none really safe, but I take the lane, go into the left track and signal, then turn left, and as soon as it is safe to do so return to the right side of the road. Turning left from the right side of the road to the right side of the road is something I never do, and tracking another vehicle would just be too dangerous.

I always 'take the lane' when I make a left turn, be visible, be safe. I do make a wide turn into the far right lane while turning making my intentions apparent to even the thickest of drivers( lord knows this city is rife with them).
Like fighter pilots, head on a swivel, always checking your 'six'.
we have mirrors.....use them.

Hey Lock,

I'll try my best here to address each item in order:

Charges - She was immediately charged with "Careless Driving". Apparently looking right while accelerating hard left is quite frowned upon. See here:



Note: The sketch omits the full centre turn lane
----------------

What paths:

According to this legend (http://www.toronto.ca...) I'd be using both Minor Multi-use Pathway (Purple) and Bike Lanes (Red). Most often the paths along Lakeshore between Coxwell Ave and the DVP. For lanes, it's those such as the ones on Dundas St. E. or Sherbourne Ave.

I'm never in what I would define as a "park"

So sorry - But I'm still not entirely sure how to interpret what you have noted as to how it applies to me...Other than perhaps to suggest that no one is really sure either...Which leave me to believe that we're in the vulnerable position of leaving it to someone very ignorant to interpret it for us.....

But for the most part I think you're saying that it is not "legal" for me to ride in these places under power - But at the same time I'm supposed to behave like a bicycle....Still very confusing....Then I'm to scoot along Dundas in the (single) vehicle lane at 32km per hour?

-------------

Martin Goodman Trail - Would on the map I was looking at here: (http://www.mapmyride....) only appear to be on the south side of Lakeshore in the east end. I would typically use the one on the north side of Lakeshore Blvd....It there a difference?

Thenn of course there is where it connects with another path at the DVP and Lakeshore, over the bridge and through the wooded area to Cheery St. where I'd once again re-join the road.

--------------

- Is it legal for a car, on a regular roadway with no bike lane to pass me in the same, right-hand lane that I'm in?

You noted the act re: passing - Again I'm not sure how to interpret. If I'm on lakeshore East where there are four lanes - 2 east and 2 west. I'm traveling in the right lane:

a) Does the law permit me to ride down the centre of the lane and occupy it entirely?

b) If I should be off to the right can a car pass me while it is completely in the same right hand lane? (this is way to close for me) Most cars end up pulling maybe 50% in to the left lane, giving me some room to breath but at least a few times a day, especially in heavier traffic when everyone's in a rush to get home, some ass comes up along side of me very close and in the same lane pushing me right up against the curb - This is why I'll often take the centre of the lane, dealing with the honking, only to make certain they dont try to pass.

c) in the event that I'm on a 2 lane road then - on lane east one west....Again, this would indicate that I DO let cars pass and that they should give me enough room. That I should not be in any bike lane and that I should not take centre of the lane and slow down traffic....Making me a "bicycle", but without the afforded safety.

-----------------

- Then is it also illegal for me to pass a car along the curb on the right in the same lane when they are slower than me due to traffic?


Dunno! `Cept that cyclists do this all the time...

They certainly do - I will admittedly do this very occasionally at very low speed in completely jammed traffic....I suppose the questions remains as to weather the officers are considering me a "bicycle". Again, I'd hate for this to be interpreted on our behalf.

-----------------

I think that what I'm ultimately hearing here is that, being that a lot of this is still so new, that much is still open and not defined.

That being said - I should NOT be in these multi-use paths or street bike lanes at all. Rather I should ride where other motor vehicles do and should:

-Keep to the right unless I feel unsafe and then take a whole lane. If this slows traffic and causes some honking then so be it.

- Turn left like a regular motor vehicle, using the centre of the left turn lane. This would also mean I should, on a two lane road, signal and move from the right curb across traffic to the left and ultimately to the left turn lane.

This is the way I rode prior to the accident and what got me in to the accident as it presumes that vehicles will be paying attention.

FINALLY - the act notes being overtaken by "equestrian" - Not been passed by a horse yet. :-)

Am I on the right track here?

I've got to get out to one of the meetups to discuss this with my fellow riders....When I do maybe I'll bring a full copy of the Ontario HTA.