You guys may be interested in my new project. And I need some help with the design.

I purchased a Motorino XPr on April 28, 2011. So far, 2000 kilometers, and it's running very well. Now it's time for some modification!

I have purchased a "Watts Up" meter. I will be mounting it in a weatherproof box, and intend on attaching it to the left-side hand-grip with a P-ring and a metal bracket. In the same box, I intend to mount an "indoor/outdoor" automobile thermometer. The "outdoor" probe is to be threaded into the hub motor, to allow monitoring motor temperature. Possibly a clock as well, and two switches - one to reset the power meter, and a "turbo" to disengage the speed limiter.

I will use jumper cables to provide 8 gauge wire for the power meter, and smaller wires for the rest.

While I'm in there, I want to also fix the speedometer -- it reads 20% over, and I wouldn't mind correcting it. I just don't know how (does anyone here have an idea?).

After the power meter is installed, I can compute controller and motor efficiency. My current guess is somewhere around 80%, so to get 500W of power at the axle, I should be putting in 600W into the controller -- still, it depends on the actual efficiency.

Questions:

1 - Should I be monitoring motor temperature, or controller temperature? The controller appears rated at 40A, so I wasn't too worried.

2 - Should I pull 4 8-gauge to allow the option of a switch to monitor charging as well as consumption? In that case, should I use a power relay to connect the meter to the two circuits?

3 - Has anyone made a similar modification, and did it void the manufacturers warranty?

4 - Motorino (Greenwit) controllers are apparently programmable. A "shunt mod" shouldn't be necessary to fine-tune the power, but I would need to know the programming software. Anyone have a clue?

5 - I wouldn't mind having an LED (green/red/off) to indicate power on (red) regeneration active (green). I could put the circuit for that in as well... BUT... I need to know a little more about the controller. I am just guessing right now -- but there doesn't really appear to be a second circuit to the battery. The power from regeneration appears to be dumped back into the cells. So, a simple diode and voltage control would seem to suffice. I would use a protection diode for the power meter as well?

6 - When I replace the batteries with Lithium, I imagine a diode would be needed to PREVENT the regeneration. Any comments?

7 - How to adjust the speedometer?

Cool Fred. First thought, ya don't need to run full pack voltage to the Watts Up meter if you use a shunt... see here:
http://www.endless-sp...

Lock

Now that I have met with Motorino reps --

1 - Adding Watts Up won't void my warranty
2 - Speedometer is difficult to adjust. There is an "in-wheel" adjust for wheel size that may help, but the reps asked how it SHOULD read. I requested 10% over, just like motorcycles.
3 - LED lighting is possible for turn indicators, NOT stop indicator. The stop indicator is tied to the regen, and it pops LED rear (brake) lighting. When the bikes leave China, they are actually certified as motorcycles; e-bikes when they arrive, which causes restrictions on lighting. China reps are considering LED turn indicators. I can work out a circuit to solve this, though...
4 - SteveM is considering CA (cycle analyst) instead of discrete instrumentation. Solves speedometer problems and gives accurate battery metering.
5 - Greenwit looking at "drop-in" lithium, should be available by the time I will need battery replacement.

So, my project is proceeding.

FredW

4 - SteveM is considering CA (cycle analyst) instead of discrete instrumentation. Solves speedometer problems and gives accurate battery metering.
5 - Greenwit looking at "drop-in" lithium, should be available by the time I will need battery replacement.

Kudos then to Motorino/Greenwit/SteveM for these two initiatives!

Lock

I read on the Motorino site News area"" May 5, 2011.

MOTORINO Scooters now available with Li-Ion Batteries --30 AH Li-Ion batteries are an option for Motorino scooters.""

Or is this not for all models..

mike

Mike

I read the same thing. I wanted to confirm that the XPr I have could go lithium when the SLA pack dies, without the need for major rewiring. I didn't see any Lithium Motorino product at either Station Ski & Ride or epRider.

Now, I know that I could do the conversion myself (along with BMS, etc.), but I wanted a "factory blessed" solution as this ebike is my commuter (solid, reliable, green transportation). It is becoming a bit of hobby, but I don't want to be FORCED down that path. SteveM confirmed that such an upgrade is/would be available (I would even have been happy with just technical assistance).

As well, the extra 14ah SLA pack I have is zip-tied together. I think Greenwit is taking delivery of battery boxes (SteveM mentioned it), which can neaten things up (contact Greenwit, or your dealer to get your order in). I could be mistaken, but I think 100 or 150 units...

FredW

Installed my Watts Up meter this evening.

Tapped into the main power feed from battery to controller (its the yellow box with black/red/blue-white wires). Black/Red are -/+ from battery.

Opened and extended the Black wire (and return) through the hole for the aux battery, and put the Watts Up under the seat. Source + (Red) from the Watts Up to the controller side of the breaker.

Works well. I have to use the breaker to reset the Watts Up, because the source is battery-side.

Now to take some riding measurements, and plan the move to the handlebar.

FredW

Wow-really exiting to hear after all the crap we have been listening to about Steve and motorino.

I would love to know about the "turbo" button,sounds like I just have to disconnect a wire -surreptitiously?

Is the magic box you have like the "Brain" I see advertised?

Will be looking forward to this thread and seeing how you succeed .

Please take some pictures and share with us where you buy your stuff.

Greatest thing about Motorinos is as you say they were built and certified as real motorbikes from China which makes addons easier and safer.

Cheers on your modifications Fred

Your picture looks like a happy speed demon

Now that I have the Watts Up meter installed, I can finally give some hard numbers for the XPr.

The bike weighs 260 lbs, I weigh 204 lbs. I was wearing a suit and a VERY heavy leather jacket (just in case it gets cold this evening) -- 15 lbs. I carry a messenger bag with laptop and daybook (10 lbs) for a total weight of 490 lbs (rounded).

The bike has 34Ah of lead. So far (by the bike odometer, which may be off by a 0.8 factor), I have 2880 kms. That may be 2304 kms (and, I believe it is). The bike has been charged abut 150 times, but 100 times has been around 50% capacity before recharge (average is one charge per 15 kilometers, which tallies well with the ride data collected today).

Trip data (home to work)
Date: 10/11/11
Vstart: 55.00
Vend: 51.61
Vmin: 46.2
Wpeak: 1979.1
Ah: 7.138
Wh: 343.6
KM: 12

From this, we see that the bike currently uses 28.6Wh/KM -- not so good, but in-line with the weight of the bike and rider. I can then expect 34KM from a full pack (about half of the published maximum range). Note that this ride was (primarily) along Sheppard, from about Midland to Yonge. That includes going through the Don Valley, and around 14 stops.

The controller is rated at 40A, but the peak during the ride is 41A. Still within margin.

FredW

Edit: I will track this data, along with Savg/Smax (speed average/max), and temperature exterior/motor if available from GPS for each ride. What I want to know is, is this data useful to anyone except myself? If it is, I will publish it in spreadsheet format here. If not... I won't bother.

My (temporary) temperature solution will measure +-50C external and motor. I may choose to monitor controller temperature instead (feedback welcome).

Well personally I'm fascinated Fred.

Thank you so much for these data points!

Just to nickel-and-dime, it'd be fun to see the numbers change with the temperature of the pack (daily average ambient temps?) as the weather cools/warms:
http://climate.weathe...

Also, plugging your charger into a Kill A Watt meter would factor in charger efficiency:
http://www.killawattp...


If you are interested in seeing what sort of Wh/km the hobby ebiker folks are seeing, ya can have a look here:
https://docs.google.c...

You can see these are mostly/all DIY ebikes so the numbers are all over the map and most of their systems are a lot more that 500W nominal... But yeah, your 28.6 Wh/km is getting "up there" but also to be expected from a heavy-ish bike and rider!

Your observation "...half of the published maximum range..." seems true for just about all ebike specs. Maybe TERA should start our own independent testing lab.

Cheers

LocK