i ride a daymak gatto, which i bought used from the store after just one short test ride. simply because the bike nears 50 km/h on flat land. it only had 90kms on it and had visual evidence of being dropped once but i don't know if they knew about the power it had. or why somebody would bring it back. anyways i got it at a pretty good price.

as others have mentioned /speculated before on this site i...without a doubt...am safer being able to go that speed. i can pace with traffic on downtown streets (maintain control of an actual LANE) and so i never have to do the dreaded curb side shuffle. or allow myself to be 'lane split' by anxious drivers. even cyclists are less of a bother as after 30 or so yards it becomes obvious that i'm in a different 'speed class' as them. except for the odd courier with something to prove hahaha. i understand the idea of capping the bike's speed but that should be at a speed that is safe to travel the streets of downtown toronto. (perhaps even the city's designated speed limit lol) 32kph is about 10 too slow in my opinion. basic drivers ed right?: keep a steady pace with the vehicles around you.

the trade off for that top speed has been range and battery life. i only need 20-30km per day so the range i have no problem with but i've basically had to replace the battery every 2500-3000k. and when that means i don't have the bike for a few weeks (daymak has horrible part's/labour/service) that's a bigger deal.

i recently found this website while i was waiting for daymak to source me my THIRD battery pack (took them over a month this time) and decided to use the information found here and attempt the replacement myself.

not only was i able to find better quality s.l.a. batteries locally (delivered to my door same day) for a better price. but i was able to complete the job myself without the need for a tow to the shop, the cost of labour etc... all told it would have been well over $500 from daymak ($90 per battery pack, pickup and labour) and i did it for under $300 (...out of the 4 chinese bricks i pulled out i swear only 2 were replaced last time) i got the batt's home saturday night and took my first drive on the new pack sunday night.

beyond that this site has given me even more valuable information regarding bylaws, the idea of owning a second 'winter' bike, lead acid battery care and maintenance, the pro's and con's of lithium (next time... i wanted to be sure i could do this first), the emergence of lower speed electric motorcycles with 5000+watt motors, i'm even thinking starting a freelance ebike service company after my recent success. this is an exploding market and generally mechanics scoff at servicing anything but cars but the money is there and the competition is not.
a no-brainer

just wanted to share my story, to say thanks t.e.r.a. and i'll be seeing you brave autumn riders out there.

stay safe.

At 20 to 30km per day, that's a battery change every 100 days!

Wow! I just rolled 3000k, on my first set of batteries. Still going (how fast do SLA die? Is it sudden?).

I'm going lithium after these batteries die. But, I was kind of hoping for 9000k before replacement.
I would settle for 7000k, and would LOVE to get 10000k but 3000k seems a bit... too small. That means that (power aside) the ebike is costing 10 cents/kilometer ($300 per 3000k).

Anyway, with gas at (a bit high) $1.30/L, you are getting 13 kilometers per litre (price equivalence). A Prius gets 5.79L/100km whereas your ebike is getting around 7.69L/100km. Note that 2.35L/100km is the "magic" 100mpg, which is ALMOST there if the batteries last 9000km, and IS there (and a bit better) if the batteries are good for 10000km.

Of course, if gas prices change, this "equivalency" calculation changes.

I was hoping for around THREE TIMES that out of my SLA batteries. Your batteries are less fuel-cost efficient than the Prius?

(Of course, the Prius has some maintenance, insurance and parking to deal with -- I figure that every 30 days, I would spend $80 in insurance, and $100 in parking, so even at 7.69L/100km, the ebike would be a win).

You may want to consider a battery meter (Cycle Analyst of Watts Up) to see what your Watt Hour/kilometer consumption is and check for overheating connections, sticky brakes, etc. Also, consider upgrading to a larger battery -- so it won't cycle as deeply. The cells should then live longer.

I decided to go with 34Ah of battery of a 24km daily commute, because I wasn't sure if I could top-up charge in the middle. I've also invested $60 in a Watts Up meter to keep tabs on how the batteries are performing.

These changes may improve your battery life, and make your ebike more operationally cost effective.

FredW

i recently found this website while i was waiting for daymak to source me my THIRD battery pack (took them over a month this time) and decided to use the information found here and attempt the replacement myself.

Izik

What is the web site you mentioned? I have a bike smilar to a Gatto and also changed my own batteries.
However, delivery sounds good for next time.

crosstown batteries.
i found the link and number here on this site.
i suspect i'll get much more life from these ones.

you know i've never bothered with the math before... doesn't sound so good when you put it like that.
but i accept the trade off regarding the lack of parking, maintenance, insurance, gas, tickets...etc.
the fact that i park the bike INSIDE my 10th floor apt has got to be worth something right? basically without factoring the times when i don't have the bike i've spent under 2000$ on transportation in 3 years...INLUDING the vehicle...that's pretty good.

the batteries die relatively slowly. the range and charge will drop a few percent per ride and before you know it you're pushing hahaha. kidding, once the range lowered i would ride the bike to a bixi station and a bixi bike the rest of the way...even recently i still used it for 10 minute trips to metro and such. (no hills) what i'm saying is that you won't be surprised one day...it just gradually will not go as far or hold a full charge.

i will say again that these batteries i pulled out were fresh in 1975 it seemed. i expect much much more from the new packs and will keep everybody informed. from what i hear daybook uses the cheapest parts available and thier d-drive is the only proprietary aspect of the bike...knowing that i would suggest anybody shy away from that company. i suspect the e-fada with the same chassis/body would have much better batteries as well. (i love my bike...i just hate the company it came from) and i'll mention again that two of the batt's i pulled were in far far worse condition than the other 2 (coated with i guess 'lead acid' dust? and warped to hell)...i seriously belive they may have only swapped 1/2 my pack. and i'm going to suggest they didn't scrub the connections with boiling water and baking soda as they should have (and i did)...next time i'm going lithium, and brand new cables from front to back. unless i get over 6000k from these batts...then i'll just do this again.

as far as my last batts...not only were they cheap batts...not only did i ride 'wot' @50kph for much of the useage... often with loads over 40lbs...on top of my 180lbs... from a standing stop... on a hill even...never once have i used the pedals...not only did they get parked outside in the cold for hours...not only did i keep the charger in for days sometimes...not only did they only replace 1/2 the batts... not only did i regularly discharge them well past 95-98%...hahaha ...you still think 3000k is a little low?

basically i knew very little about caring for them...these new ones are going to be different. i was chastising myself as i read the post here about sla batteries... but as they say about hindsight...

i will be getting a battery meter as you suggest but...could you tell me where to hook it up? i don't want to pull this thing apart again anytime soon!!

thanks for reaching out...i don't talk about this stuff to anybody else so i feel more informed every day since i joined this site. sunday might be a stretch but i'm keen on getting to the brick works.

e-ccupy toronto hahaha.

Hey brother!

I don't mean to be a buzz-kill, but you bike doesn't go anywhere near 50kph. This is something that almost all manufacturers do to make us feel like their bikes are amazingly fast. Fact isa that these bikes are certified as "bicycle class" vehicles. You'll note the sticker on the bike that says so. They would not risk the almost certain liability in giving you a bike that was this fast.

Driving in the city it's not tough to keep up with cars at 32kph

If you need to be sure, get your hands on a GPS and check your speed. If you're doing 50, I'm going to buy a Gatto this week.

Not trying to be a downer - just think pople should know the truth about what they pay for.

Peace!

TO Joe

I don't mean to be a buzz-kill, but you bike doesn't go anywhere near 50kph.
...If you're doing 50, I'm going to buy a Gatto this week....
TO Joe

TO Joe

Since you seem to be salivating at the thought of 50km/h -- here's how to do it. Off-road only, experimental, will void your warranty, make blow up your ebike. But good, clean fun!

Your XPd will do around 40km/h "naturally" -- that is, with the current limiter removed. Not legal, off-road only. If an additional battery is spliced in, the nominal voltage will be increased to 60V (from 48V). This is a 25% increase. This should bring the maximum speed up to around 50km/h.

So, a 50km/h "off road" modification would be to wire in a switch adding an additional 12V battery, and a switch to disable the current limiter. This may (unfortunately) blow your DC-DC converter, but I think it should be ok. Top pack voltage would increase from 55V to 68.75V. The LVC (low voltage cutoff) would be wrong, so you would have to watch your batteries carefully. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SET THE CONTROLLER LVC (and, for this modification, it doesn't matter, the LVC required will be greater than the LVC that is already set).

To "properly" do this mod:

1 - Make sure epRider has a DC-DC converter in stock, and a controller in stock (or buy one of each for emergencies)
2 - Open the controller and verify that the big capacitors are rated for the additional voltage
3 - Wire the current limiter to a switch, mounted somewhere in the back
4 - Add the additional battery, and wire (8 gage would be preferred, and an additional wiring ceramic block) through a switch (rated at 60V/40A).
5 - Add a precharge switch around the existing breaker (at 60V there will be more sparking unless this is done).
6 - I would mount additional switches under the seat, near the existing breaker.
7 - Add a Watts Up or CA to monitor the pack voltage is avoid damaging the batteries in off-road mode.
8 - I haven't tried wiring in an additional battery, so this is speculative.

Now, the capacitors are "under rated" and probably won't blow at 20% additional voltage. Caveat Emptor and all that. Same with the DC-DC converter. If this is NOT switched, it will make your ebike "road illegal". Running at the higher speed is going to pound the snot out of your battery. I would recommend switching to Lithium (and, as long as the Lithium has a BMS, the LVC becomes irrelevant).

The Gatto was purchased used; the previous owner may have spliced the battery in, and changed the charger to a 60V. I don't think so, because Izik specifically mentions 4 battery packs. I agree with you, his speedometer is lying.

FredW

What Fred Said...

I'll only add that inside the controller ya need to check the voltage rating for the FETs (field-effect transistors) as well as the caps... and yeah, as speeds go up aero drag CUBES as a function of velocity, so Wh/km bike efficiency drops a lot. On one charge you will get only half-way to your destination, but a lot quicker.

(Unless Wh capacity of pack is increased accordingly. EVen the same nominal Wh capacity for lithium vs lead will help as with lithium at higher current draws the Wh capacity doesn't reduce the same way as lead acid.)

Lock

GREAT info Fred and Lock...thanks

and yea I gigled when I heard a daymak 'anything' did more than about 30..the one's I test drove did not impress me at all....and I must admit(I like many here I would bet) HAVE thought about such a conversion

And is there YET, anyone in city that's doing these similar 48-60 mods?

Fred do you yourself perform similar upgrades as a service to others? or r u just really knowledgable, which I do really appreciate all the good info I have rec'd here, especially with regards to power, battery life, conditioning, etc. MY emmo G545 batteries have NEVER gone past 15% cycle, and have been topped after each use...since...and would swear they are 'crispier' than when even new, after now a whole summer of riding(700 k on her now GPS)

And I have hoped that maybe bikes would go to 60/20 and then lithium,,yea baby! And we need a 'spot' to go for such work

If not, its high time, someone could make a killing!

Great discussion gents...

:)

Cheers

so i knew this would come up.

yes the speedometers and battery meters are crap and have in fact been removed from the bike.

i used friends cars and honda motorbikes to gauge the speed and i'm pretty sure about it.
considering i FLY past other ebikes and coast WITH taxis on streets where the speed limit is 40 and there is no traffic... (usually taxis are a little quicker than most cars yes?)

i'm sure there are doubters and haters out there buy i'm no liar.

i live in parkdale and am more than willing to PROVE my claim. i have all thursday off if it matters that much to anybody. if anybody wants to like their ebike a little less i'm willing to race...sprint or gp!!!!!
i'd love for another tera member to verify this for everybody!!

i'll be honest: i'm pretty sure i wouldent bother with anything capped at 32kph. thats weak!