what do the experts say regarding lithium batterys compeard to lead acicid.
i have a 60 volt lithium battery in my bike
all coments will be welcome
sid

Lithium batteries are lighter and more expensive. There are conflicting recommendations on battery maintainence out there, which I find very confusing and annoying. I've read that you should top up the battery as soon as possible after use, no matter how little is used. I've read that you should store lithium batteries fully charged ... But I have also read that for long term storage any longer than a week, they shoul only be charged to half capacity. Some of the confusion is caused by people passing info along for lithium batteries that really applies only to lead acid or nicads. Even manufacturers have been known to do that. One would think that the battery developers and manufacturers would be able to publish a factual, consistent, and easy to understand instruction sheet on proper battery maintainence for each type of battery, but the more I check, the more conflicting information I get.

thanks for your reply jim
seems you have been reading same story as i
i was told by a dealer that when i charge it i should have a smoke detector and fier extinquisher on hand and when i ride the bike have my cell phone handy to call for help as the bike will let me down , any one had a bad experiance with lithium batterys

There's more than one kind of Lithium battery. Lithium Polymer batteries are probably the most finicky of the bunch. They require a certain level of knowledge and the right equipment to charge them. With the right amount of knowledge and the right equipment, they are safe but a slight mistake from even the most experienced can lead to disaster.

On the other side there's probably the safest of the Lithium batteries, the Lithium Iron Phosphate. LiFePO4. These can be over discharged or over charged and even punctured with a six inch nail and will not burst into flames at all. They are not as powerful as Lithium Polymer (Lipos) but they are the most viable solution for someone who is looking for a plug and play, peace of mind, safe battery that will still be a lot more powerful than SLAs and half the weight or less. The cells come in a few different formats.

I never used Lithium based batteries on my scooter yet but plan to this spring with a couple packs from Cellman. The experience I have with lipos is more based on the RC hobby like trucks and helicopters. But basically, the people that use lipos are using the same hobby grade batteries I use for my hobbies.

My opinion on what is good or not regarding LiFePO4 batteries is stay away from ebay vendors and do some research on what is high quality, well assembled packs with genuine A123 cells inside. I did some research and asked questions and thought and thought and studied the different options and did more research and I will most likely end up getting the Cellman batteries because he is trusted by many to use genuine A123 cells and does a good job at assembling strong , well packaged batteries that can take some abuse and keep on kicking.

This resumes the bulk of my knowledge on the subject.

I use 48V LiFePO4 (lithium) batteries. I've had lead acid in the past.
For me the weight of lithium is a major plus. Allows you to easily cart your batteries inside to charge.
The charging time for me is usually under 4 hours for a full charge is great.
You get the full power of the battery to the last drop which is good and bad. With lead acid as you get to the end of your battery charge the bike will get sluggish and you know it's time to charge up, but with the lithium you don't know for sure until you lose total power. Twice now, I've had to walk my bike home. :-(
The other point of contention with some people is price. Yes lithium is more expensive initially but the batteries should last you years longer than lead acid.

I never put a pack together, I trust in my mechanical/electrical ineptitude enough that I purchased my lithium battery pack with the bike. ;-)

Hi Everyone,
As an electronics engineering technologist since 1982, I've done a lot of work with power supply systems. A123 has great reliability and and a few suitable products, unfortunately they prefer to supply to OEMs, so buying directly from them is out of the question. Locate a distributor (ask around at your local hobby shop, someone might know). IBM (California) has developed a "Li-Air" battery and is in prototype testing, super light and very high capacity (1000x Lead-Acid) and with charge/discharge rates ideal for EVs. Still a few years off though.

There are a few good websites regarding battery technologies, here is one that has some great info.

http://batteryunivers...

Hope this helps!!

Nash Ali

Cool Nash Ali

Just FYI A123 does have one (and only one) authorized retailer, Mavizen:
http://www.mavizen.co...

Raymond mentioned Cell-man, and his site is here:
http://www.emissions-...

Cell-man doesn't always have stock, but he also has been proven a reliable source of A123 cells (A grade, not B grade or used...)

BTW, Sid? Mike? Have you poked around the E-Bike Technical Forum here:
http://www.ebikerider...

...quite a few threads already talking about Lithium (meaning mostly LiFePO4) packs.

Cheers

Lock

thnks so mutch for all your replys.
i have spent lots of time on the internet checking out put you guys told me more than i got from the net, my bike came with lithium but it dose nat say what type it is , is there a way to finde out, the battery is sealed and i can not finde anything on it to give me a clue.
thanks again guys,
P.S. please exuse my spelling im the worst speller in the world.

...my bike came with lithium but it dose nat say what type it is , is there a way to finde out, the battery is sealed and i can not finde anything on it to give me a clue.

Easy one Sid. Seller (Volt Canada?) will be supplying either Lithium Manganese (LiMnO4) ...probably, or maybe Lithium Phosphate (LiFePO4). But if they were supplying LiFePO4 they would probably be promoting this fact. So the simple question to the seller is, what is the cycle life of the pack? If they come back with 500-800 cycles then it'll be LiMnO4. If they say 1000-2000 cycles then it'll be LiFePO4.

Another way to tell, maybe, if you can count the cells or BMS sense wires, is that LiMnO4 cells are nominal 3.7V each, while LiFePO4 are 3.2V each, so it takes fewer cells in series to reach 60V (16 versus 18) But in practice a standard BMS size is 16 cells so if LiMnO4 then 16x3.7V = 59.2V aka "60V", while 16 cells of LiFePO4 would only be 51.2V aka "48V" so again, chances are your pack is LiMnO4, good for 500 cycles approx.

Lock

Lock, My A2B came with (I believe) Lithium-Ion batteries made by Panasonic or Sanyo depending on who you talk to. Is Lithium-ion a third type of lithium battery in addition to LiFeP04 and LiMn04 ? I've heard that they usually last 2 years so I'm assuming they're also rated at 500 cycles.