What a fascinating thing in LiFPO4 (I like to call them Lithium Ferris Phosphate)

It makes sense that the actual volume of cells you have discharging only seventy percent would extend the life of the battery, and that being distributed over the whole would lessen the burden of sudden draw burning life-hours off.
It's too bad we couldn't preempt all of that by building the battery into a custom forme fit in every hollow part of the frame of an EV, engineering it all so that it would be evenly balanced in physical weight. Yes, yes we could have wind turbines transforming wind resistance while in motion into more current too.
All of this, so that I can move my body to all points of town on my own schedule.
What a luxury that would be.

These BMS : Are they tethered to each individual cell as they are between each hooked up in series?
It's be great to see the log of a trip monitored in that way.
It'd be even better to read it on the dial in front in real time.
Andy's vehicle sounds absolutely superb in every way except that I doubt if I could sneek it in here as an e-bike. (I would in a flash, if that were so).

It'd be a neat thing to have fully charged batteries with readable value, all over town, using the same business model as barbecue propane tanks. In the larger scheme of things, this would seem logical with our current limits in battery technology.

Yes lOCk, you did, say that they were tethered individually. I've re-read you earlier posts. Forgive me.

And too the carrying everything up three floors is worst case scenario if my creative resourcefulness runs out in devising a method closer to the ground level for charging. (And then I would be compelled to use a heater alongside of the charger, as it's a street-level outdoor garage without heat but has electricity within reach.) Security is my concern here.

A friend (who lives in a wheelchair) told me once of a chair that climbs stairs on two large fat wheels (similar to those used in ATVs) side by side, using a gyro to maintain the perpendicular positioning. I believe it was still said to be in the prototype stage of development. It apparently had similar characteristics to those two-wheeler upright people movers. Imagine, if you could have an electrically driven "dolly" incorporating that same technology.

It makes sense that the actual volume of cells you have discharging only seventy percent would extend the life of the battery

Pretty much all battery chemistries are like this John. They get more sensitive right at their top and bottom ends of charge... more likely to suffer wear and tear that shortens life... Sealed lead acid batts are usually rated good for 300 cycles (one discharge plus one recharge) but this assumes they are never discharged below 80% DOD... If they are never discharged below 50%, 600 cycles are a possibility before they get tired and need to be swapped out. There's some evidence that nickel and lithium batts shouldn't be charged to 100%... only perhaps 90%. The car companies making hybrids treat their batt packs like this now. The control circuits only let the batts meander between perhaps 90% down to 20%.

It's too bad we couldn't preempt all of that by building the battery into a custom forme fit in every hollow part of the frame of an EV, engineering it all so that it would be evenly balanced in physical weight.

So, you mean like this:


There are/have been designs w/batts built into frames... some more succesful than others. Personally I prefer a batt pack detachable, so it can be removed inside for charging and security and warmth, or to split the overall weight of the vehicle to make each part lighter if, for example, I need to lug the vehicle up three flights of stairs

Yes, yes we could have wind turbines transforming wind resistance while in motion into more current too.

Careful John... folks have been seeking the Free Lunch since the Garden of Eden...

These BMS : Are they tethered to each individual cell as they are between each hooked up in series?

Yes, the cells have (larger) power wires that connect them together in series plus the BMS board has tiny wires - it only balances the cells using 200 mA - that lead from the BMS to each cell terminal.

It's be great to see the log of a trip monitored in that way. It'd be even better to read it on the dial in front in real time.

What, you mean like this?:


Lock

A friend (who lives in a wheelchair) told me once of a chair that climbs stairs on two large fat wheels (similar to those used in ATVs) side by side, using a gyro to maintain the perpendicular positioning. I believe it was still said to be in the prototype stage of development. It apparently had similar characteristics to those two-wheeler upright people movers.

That sounds like a flavour of Segway:


Segway made their iBot 4000 for a while, but have discontinued... Actually Segway itself got sold finally a few weeks back.

Imagine, if you could have an electrically driven "dolly" incorporating that same technology.

I have operated a "stair climber" that used caterpillar treads to climb up/down stairs. It was designed with its own chair but this could be removed to accomodate a wheelchair. Maybe all you need is a single tank tread that snaps on the bottom of the vehicle where spinning the electric bike wheels/tires makes the tread spin...

Lock

divested the company to an undisclosed acquiror....
Fri, 15 Jan 2010 05:00:00 GMT... Yes, Segway's been sold quietly, while Stephen Harper was stuffing stockings with perogies at Christmas time. Very sad on both accounts. If the people mover had taken off, it would have made access for the disabled within reach by there being all of the necessary ramps etc for accommodating such. I believe the use of the People Mover was stymied by liability issues. They had no category for it. They couldn't tell if it was a bird, a plane, or Superman. The San Francisco Bay Area is the best example I've ever seen for accessibility. There were so many Vietnam vets concentrated there. It was not uncommon to see a wheelchair doing 60 mph in the middle of the night down Telegraph Avenue (illegally) when I was there in the late eighties. It was also not uncommon to see well organized wheelchair service "garages" dotting the landscape focused on all sorts of battery powered vehicles. Mind you, the weather in the Bay Area is much more inviting to this technology than Toronto, with heavy rain being as bad as it gets (aside from it being earthquake territory).

What a thing it would be to rip my e-bike up four flights of stairs to my 3rd floor dwelling in a 4 floor '50s building. It could become the central mechanical powerhouse for my apartment. I could change the tires and make it into a floor-sander...or I could sit on it and write my songs there. All of this under things missing in my life.

Any day now I shall be released into the care of an e-bike. I'm making a list, checking it twice and too, checking Craigslist etc for the Louisiana Purchase. I'd like to need to sell my February metropass.

I am still angry with Dean Kamen (Segway.) Most of his Segway "development costs" were lunches spent on state and provincial public servants to get his boilerplate EPAMD legislation slotted into the regulations. After hitting each State he came to Canada...

Today in Ontario it is legal to ride a stand-up electric scooter on any road or sidewalk. Ya don't need a helmet or a license or insurance. The catch is, you need to be able to claim some sort of disability, and you can only buy your scooter from a privately owned company in Britain (formerly USA) and it costs $5000.

Here is what one Dad said recently (yesterday) about his little (home made, inexpensive) standup electric scooter:
"This is a great little commuter and gets an absolute thashing. The kids are always on it and I use it for those quick runs to shops and back."

These things are legal in other jurisdictions but not yet in Canada/Ontario... They have similar operating characteristics to the Segway but cost a small fraction of what Segway charges. And they are more practical. Lighter weight, and hybrids that can be kicked for exercise and warmth or if battery charge is low...

Transport Canada has already studied stand-up scooters at the same time as they studied the Segway...
From the conclusions of their study:
"It is therefore recommended that Phase 2 of the Fly-Trottel Project, in which electric scooters and Segways will be evaluated in actual-use conditions, be carried out according to procedures established by the Project partners. Evaluations in actual-use conditions will be helpful in the search for a new regulatory framework by defining technical characteristics and conditions in which the MPTDs can be used."

Then, sometime between this first phase study and the second, they dropped the scooters. Here's what they say on their web site:

"Following the tabling of the phase 1 report, MTQ and SAAQ indicated they were in favour of conducting a second phase of evaluation, under certain conditions, of the Segway EPAMD alone. The authorities did not consider the electric scooter safe enough for experimentation on public roadways."

But this is what a TC rep wrote me:
Subject: RE: Evaluation of the Segway
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:14:40 -0500
From: "Guérette, Claude" <GUERETC@tc.gc.ca>
To: "Lock Hughes"
CC: "Sylvain Castonguay" <scastonguay@ceveq.qc.ca>

Mr. Hughes, the Segway evaluation phase 2 is now being concluded with a report early in the New Year.

We did not pursue the evaluation of other personal mobility devices because of the variety of configurations and the difficulty to categorize them and compare them. It may be something that will be undertaken in the future by CEVEQ.

For more info, I recommend that you get in-touch with CEVEQ who leads this evaluation project.
*************** end of email from Transport Canada *******************

So what Transport Canada (and the Provincial Transport Ministries) are faced with are tiny vehicles with similar operating characteristics to the Victorian pedal bicycle yet they don't know how to regulate them???

Do ya know what a struggle it has been just to get electric pedal bikes legalized in Canada? Ontario fought against them for years! When Transport Canada wanted to study them on the road Ontario refused to participate, and TC ended up trying them in Quebec but also in TORONTO PARKS (because Parks in Toronto are not "roads" governed by the MTO.)

Anywhooo... the only good thing I can say about Kamen is that he introduced this crack in the legislative wall. My new scooter is designed as a wedge to drive into this crack
Lock

Mind you, the weather in the Bay Area is much more inviting to this technology than Toronto, with heavy rain being as bad as it gets (aside from it being earthquake territory).

While if you look at the weather typical for Copenhagen (cool temps with many rainy and windy days) the Danes are very cycle-friendly...

The "problems" with ebikes and escooters aren't technological but social and political and due to a lack of infrastructure (same as pedal only bikes...) It hasn't helped that early adopters in Toronto have been buying vehicles that are cheaply constructed and poorly designed for our Canadian climate!

Lock

Any day now I shall be released into the care of an e-bike. I'm making a list, checking it twice and too, checking Craigslist etc for the Louisiana Purchase. I'd like to need to sell my February metropass.

Hehe...
The absolutely cheapest way to get into ebiking is to buy an inexpensive second-hand pedal bike with steel frame (steel front forks) and add a quality front hub motor kit plus battery pack(s) on cargo rack or in panniers.

http://www.ebikes.ca/...

We are very fortunate to have in Canada this ebike source on our Wet Coast owned by Justin Lemire-Elmore who has been a leading light in the North American ebike community for many years.

Cheers
Lo0cK

The reference to "21S" means 21 60Ah cells connected in series.
Some details on these Thundersky cells here (I don't know this supplier, just googled their page FYI!):
http://www.electricmo...
(SNIP SNIP)
At the price shown on that page, $2,520US plus shipping and maybe GST/HST and a little duty.

Found these same cells from a Canadian source here:
http://www.emotivecan...

...and 21 cells at their current pricing... "only" $2,247Cdn... so getting cheaper

Lock

ps... are you *sure* you need that 80km range? Seems like quite a distance to go on one charge?

Lock

I'd be very much interested in a Meetup at some point to see what you've got in the way of your bicycle being converted. I would bring my mountain bike asking for an opinion about that. What's between Pape and Oconnor and the Island that might be convenient?

John