Cycle 9 has a good reputation as an ebike retailer... they have been posting vids on YouTube and their latest talks about riding safely in traffic, especially "taking the lane":



tks
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You know it's funny reading this entire thread. I continue to see this divide between e-bikers (ie the regular bikes with electric conversion kits) and e-scooter riders. The funniest part though is most of the anger is coming from the e-bikers. Is change really that tough of a pill to swallow? I mean really?

I will be the first to agree that there are many e-scooter riders out there that are not following the rules of the road. I see it at least once or twice a month, but you know what I see even more often? Cyclists disobeying the rules of the road. I see this DAILY. I guess I didn't get the memo that says you can cut off cars, swerve between them, pass in their blind spots and blowing stop signs/red lights.

Now I understand that the e-scooter does open the door to morbidly obese people. I do understand how the e-scooter opens the door to the physically weak. I get that. But that does NOT mean that those are the only people riding the scooters. I for one am an avid cyclist. I have my kona dew deluxe that is used for traveling light. I have my giant xtc hard tail for hitting the don trails. I even have a giant trance full suspension for when I want to hit the crazy technical trails. I also however have my e-scooter for commuting to and from work. It just ain't cool getting to work all sweaty and gross.

Joshua to imply what you do about "everyone" that purchases the scooter style e-bike is completely generalized and stereotyped. There are some of us out there that own these things that are physically capable of handling them properly. There are some of us that DON'T fit your stereotype.

This is definitely a very hot topic that I think we need to take a few approaches to.

Now lets address some of the issues:

-E-biker, cyclist and driver education aka following the laws and regulations set by our governing body (Having been all three and being on the road daily all three are offenders however cyclists are the worst)

-E-bikes with inadequate motors/speed (in this case scooter style with anything less than 500 watt motor)

-General competence and ability to operate in fast moving traffic without being a hazard

The majority of these people who have these issues are simply uneducated or ignorant. We live in a society that is micro managed and this world is getting over populated with people. Society these days are just not used used to not having to think for themselves, we continue to invent technology that does the thinking for us. Best thing we can do is start educating people rather than complaining about one another.

In the end we are all just the same rats in a cage.

All I can say Joshua is that only Toronto and Toronto alone has this E-scooter hatred attitude. The rest of Ontario, Canada and the world has accepted them fine. It is only the Torontocentric lycra crowd, bicycle style E-Bikes and cyclists and TCU in Toronto that are like this. But the largest rule breakers are also the Torontocentric cyclists. Everyday I go to work I see at least 20 to 50 cyclists completely ignoring the HTA rules and endangering themselves and others around them. If anything they should be taken off the roads. If you say because of bad behavior E-Scooters should be banned then per capita cyclist are 1000% worse. Rant off. I respect your opinion and welcome it, and here is my opinion, in perspective for every 1 E-scooter I see violating the HTA laws I see 30 or more cyclists breaking the HTA rules.

Ken Finch

All I can say Joshua is that only Toronto and Toronto alone has this E-scooter hatred attitude. The rest of Ontario, Canada and the world has accepted them fine. It is only the Torontocentric lycra crowd, bicycle style E-Bikes and cyclists and TCU in Toronto that are like this. But the largest rule breakers are also the Torontocentric cyclists. Everyday I go to work I see at least 20 to 50 cyclists completely ignoring the HTA rules and endangering themselves and others around them. If anything they should be taken off the roads. If you say because of bad behavior E-Scooters should be banned then per capita cyclist are 1000% worse. Rant off. I respect your opinion and welcome it, and here is my opinion, in perspective for every 1 E-scooter I see violating the HTA laws I see 30 or more cyclists breaking the HTA rules.

Ken Finch

Very well said Ken. This hatred only exists in Toronto and this is the only city I have ever seen this kind of hatred. There are to many people in this city that feel a sense of entitlement for everything. This is the only city I have ever experienced such a grumpy hatred attitude about almost everything.

Personally I think there is room for all to exist. I am more than fine with e-bikes not being allowed on park trails, heck I would even be fine with them not being allowed in bike lanes. Personally I have no issue sharing the road with anyone. I don't drive like a moron and know how to handle my bike well.

If the cyclist and lycra crowd hates the scooters so much why don't they lobby the companies making the bikes. It's not the consumers fault when they are purchasing a product offered and one that was sold to them under the premise that they are a-okay and will be able to use and have for years. If there is so much hatred for these bikes have it out with the manufacturers. Getting all ragified over another rat in a cage trying to make and honest buck and get by is just plain silly. Honestly I don't understand why there needs to be so much negativity especially in forums where strong feelings and emotions get amplified.

With all said I am quite enjoying discussing this and I do enjoy and respect all others opinions on this very hot topic.

No worries man, I totally get where you are coming from.

Joseph do not think I was picking on you. I believe all E-Bikes are equal in the eyes of the law. Myself I have been riding a Condor E-Bike since August 2008 with really no problems in traffic. I do stay to the right of the road or ride in bike lanes, but I do not ride on the bike paths. Of coarse my Condor has a 450watt geared hub motor and a extra 48V 9A battery pack in parallel with the main 48V 20A battery pack. This gives me extra amps for more torque which allows faster acceleration and hill climbing power. Since I can get up to speed faster traffic is not as impatient with me. Also my Condor top speed is increased to around 40kmh on average till the battery charge depletes to about half disharged then my Condor slows down to an average of around 32kmh to 35kmh till the charge is depleted. But I usually head home for a recharge long before the charge is depleted.

Ken Finch

...my Condor top speed is increased to around 40kmh on average till the battery charge depletes to about half disharged then my Condor slows down to an average of around 32kmh to 35kmh till the charge is depleted. But I usually head home for a recharge long before the charge is depleted.

Ken Finch

Ken, are you saying that you can exceed the 32 km/hr maximum top speed on a straightaway with your e-bike?

Of coarse my Condor has a 450watt geared hub motor and a extra 48V 9A battery pack in parallel with the main 48V 20A battery pack. This gives me extra amps for more torque which allows faster acceleration and hill climbing power.

As I've said numerous times, I have a Motorino XPv with a 500W hub motor and three torque choices I can select. Interestingly, I had the opportunity to ride a loaner bike which was a 2006 older Motorino model without the hub based motors and torque selection etc. the other day. Well, I can honestly say that if this was the bike I had test ridden, I would not have bought an e-scooter! It was obviously just a lot different from what I am used to, and being an older bike maybe the batteries were a little worn, but it was scary in the sense that it had no acceleration, and I did feel very exposed in traffic. My XPv boasts a 3 sec 0-32 acceleration and I would believe it...I get up to speed very quickly. When doing a left turn, I normally keep up with traffic no problem, and then move over at the end of the turn. This one was probably more like 15 sec to 32 km/h, and I didn't really believe the speedometer at top speed... Climbing was also significantly impaired, the hill I normally ride up and still maintain 30 km/h and pass every cyclist (I pause and move into traffic when clear to do this, I don't pass in the bike lane...on this bike, I thought it might just stop at one point and nearly got passed by a cyclist (who wasn't going very fast)...luckily they turned off before catching up to me! whew, that would have been embarrassing (funnily enough, the speedometer continued to read 32 km/h )

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I was thrilled to have a loaner bike, and it was really nice of Amber at E-ride in Guelph to give me one, but it certainly reminded me that I made a very good choice with e-scooters. I haven't ridden any other scooters...the only other shop in Guelph at the time would not let you test ride any particular model, just a single test bike that was older and had a 350W motor, seems pretty silly that I would test ride one, and then say "I'll take that other one over there"... needless to say I didn't go back. E-ride was great, I could test any of the models no problem, which makes much more sense...

So, long story short, I do believe that there are some great bikes out there...I've certainly heard of quite a few that you all have that sound terrific. Just as likely, I think there are some pretty crappy cheap bikes out there (I wonder about the models that CT sells and that type of thing), and I also think in a few short years that there have been leaps and bounds in technology. Personally, I have felt very safe at 32 km/h and have no need to go faster. My bike accelerates very quickly, and I can get out of the way very quickly. I ride in bike lanes (which are just lines on the road in Guelph, not separated in any way) when they are available, but I do not go on bike paths (which are multi-use in Guelph). I avoid roads with speeds of 60km/h, and stick with the 50km/h roads. I do think that these bikes with minimal acceleration and torque could be more dangerous and incite more negativity from drivers, simply because they do get in the way more and they can't move out of the way very quickly.

I guess those were kind of random thoughts, but I was ultimately agreeing with Ken that the extra torque and acceleration can make the bike much safer.... although mine will not exceed the 32km/h limit. a

Agreed, my motorino does much better than the average bike. Mine does 37.5km/hr and even 40 if I have a good wind at my back! I might get a second battery though cus power starts to sag at the last leg of my journey to and from work.