You do make an excellent point. I got snarled at for taking my e-bike (scooter style) on the O-train. Most people including law enforcement. are not aware of these new laws. I guess all one can do is get a green plate & maybe even a flag that says "save the Gulf go electric" would help.

You are restricted to 20 mph as are Electric Bikes but we wanna increase our speed we have that option via the cranks.

Hi Joshua, once again I'm confused about your wording, you had mentioned in another thread about "e-scooters" being for handicapped persons only, and I had asked if you meant only the 4 wheel type, as I am certainly not handicapped, and ride a two wheel scooter style e-bike that goes 32k/h.

So, just to clarify, when you say e-scooter, you are indeed referring to the 4 wheeled variety? When you say e-bike, you include scooter style? thanks, a

To me an E-Scooter is a 2 Wheel (Vespa style) machine (which I consider to be a 2 wheel vehicle for the physically Handicapped)

You also have 3 & 4 wheel Mobility Scooters and Battery Powered Wheelchairs for the Handicapped who are more severely handicapped than those using the 2 wheel Vespa-like E-Scooters.

Put another way

2 wheel E-Scooters are for riders who are Physically Handicappped to a LESSER degree than those who require 3 or 4 wheel E-Scooters.

There are varying degrees of Disability which impair Mobility.

THose who use 3 & 4 wheel E-Scooters will often have issues with Balance and or are of a phsical weight beyond that of a 2 Wheel E-Scooter's weight carrying limit.

Those with 2 Wheel E-Scooters tend to NOT have balance issues and tend to not be morbidly obese.

Speed is not an issue since 3 & 4 wheel E-Scooters are also restricted to 20 mph the same as the 2 wheel Vespa style E-Scooters. The PT Zoomer is a 20 mph 3 Wheel E-Scooter, the Jaguar 4 Wheeler goes 12 mph, the Palmer 3 wheeler does 17 mph. What people see most often are E-Scooters at 5 to 7 mph but those fall under the Adaptive Devices Program which restricts speed i.e. if you want your E-Scooter cost subsidized then you settle for the slow speed units the government says is all you deserve after a lifetime of driving a Car----Duh

This is not just my definition. The importers classify the 2 Wheel Electric Scooters as Handicap Vehicles the same as a Battery powered Wheelchair. When I import or export electric motors and controllers I use a Tax Classification under Handicapped Mobility products. My local Electric Scooter Dealer views vespa-like E-Scooters as Handicapped Scooters.

YOU may not consider yourself to be physically handicapped but everyone who sees you will not share your view. To everyone from the Government down to Lycra Cyclists and everyone in between you most definately are physically handicapped.

Question time: if you think you are NOT physically handicapped then why are you driving an Electric Scooter??

To me an E-Scooter is a 2 Wheel (Vespa style) machine (which I consider to be a 2 wheel vehicle for the physically Handicapped)

2 wheel E-Scooters are for riders who are Physically Handicappped to a LESSER degree than those who require 3 or 4 wheel E-Scooters.

YOU may not consider yourself to be physically handicapped but everyone who sees you will not share your view. To everyone from the Government down to Lycra Cyclists and everyone in between you most definately are physically handicapped. [Do you read minds on the side?]

Question time: if you think you are NOT physically handicapped then why are you driving an Electric Scooter??

From a post back on June 23 from Ken:

"I know you ride a custom bicycle style E-Bike, and you dislike scooter style E-bikes. But debate unbiased and keep the insults to yourself (eg. E-Scooter riders are disabled)."

Did you ever consider that some people have both a conventional pedal bike without motor assist and an E-Scooter and ride the E-Scooter just because it's fun?

but of course some people will consider a 2 wheel e-scooter fun to ride but that still does not remove the 2 wheel E-Scooter from what the masses perceive as being a vehicle for the physically handicapped.

When I started in all this 18 years ago it was adding electic assist motors to upright old geezer style tricycles for adults and teens. These were people who were physically and some were neurologically impaired (lack of balance due to brain injury) but they refused to accept the electric wheelchairs and electric 3 & 4 wheel 5 mph E-Scooters. They did not like the Label of being Physically Handicapped even though they were compared to an able bodied Cyclist/Pedestrian and therein lies the arguement re: if your Legs still work and you don't have a Brain injury then why on earth would you be willing to ride a 2 Wheel Handicapped E-Scooter?

Do you like being restricted to 5 mph BELOW what Cars normally travel at in the City?
Do you like being kicked off bike trails?
Having the Cycle Union taking out Petitions to place more restrictions upon what your drive?

I cannot see it any other way than anyone who drives a 2--3--or 4 wheel E-Scooter or E-Wheelchair as being anything but Physically Handicapped.

And as I wrote before I don't see anything wrong with people wanting to drive a 2 wheel E-Scooter and I wish every Car driver in the City would switch to a Veloteq or Motorino or whatever but make the damn 2 wheel E-Scooters go faster than 20 mph so they are less likely to be hit by cars and so they are not slowing down un-motorized bicycles.

3 & 4 Wheel E-Scooters and E-Wheelchairs really belong on the sidewalks because of their very slow speed but unless 2 Wheel E-Scooters get closer to City Car Speeds then for safety sake 2 wheel E-Scooters should be on the sidewalks as well.

does not remove the 2 wheel E-Scooter from what the masses perceive as being a vehicle for the physically handicapped.

I cannot see it any other way than anyone who drives a 2--3--or 4 wheel E-Scooter or E-Wheelchair as being anything but Physically Handicapped.

Disagree and just stating it OVER AND OVER in this forum does not make it so.

Fred Humor Me

Yes I am thick opinionated bastard sometimes (okay most of the time) but I am also curious and open to arguments that could sway how I view E-Scooters and since you have an E-Scooter I'm asking.

So apart from being "Fun" why would you prefer an E-Scooter over an Electric Bike?

Fred Humor Me

Yes I am thick opinionated bastard sometimes (okay most of the time) but I am also curious and open to arguments that could sway how I view E-Scooters and since you have an E-Scooter I'm asking.

So apart from being "Fun" why would you prefer an E-Scooter over an Electric Bike?

Joshua
As you ask, I will ‘humor’ you and answer your question but first, my points were:

• Labeling people who ride E-scooters as ‘handicapped’ is offensive; worse, it does not need to be repeated ad infinitum. Speaking for myself, in addition to an E-scooter, I have and use: 2 conventional (pedal powered only) road bikes, roller blades, plus play tennis several times a week...so don’t consider myself handicapped – at least physically…except when it comes to doing dishes.
  
• Regarding people who ‘don’t get it’, if you mean they don’t agree, then I suspect most of this membership ‘don’t get it’.
  

Regarding why I prefer E-scooters over E-bikes, I never said that was the case. I just happen to own an E-scooter and like it.

By way of background:

• This is my 4th summer riding it, so I was bit earlier than some in this, and quite frankly, didn’t know what I was doing back then. I always wanted a gas scooter, but for various reasons, never got one, so this seemed like a good way to get something pretty close.
  
• My bike can do, on flat and no wind, about 40 km/h, even with my rather substantial weight on it
  
• I live in the city, and as mentioned, I own 2 other bikes. What I choose for any given trip is based on:
  
  
  
  • How much exercise I want and how ambitious I feel
    
  • How much stuff I am going to have to cart with me
    
  • The weather and forecast.
    
  • Which side of bed I got out of
    
  
  
• The things I like about the E-scooter:
  
  
  
  • I can carry a lot of stuff on it when shopping
    
  • The wide tires give me more confidence, especially near subway tracks
    
  • As stated, it’s fun.
    

Since I own the floor – for a change – I’ll share my own personal rules I follow when riding the E-scooter:

• I never ride on the sidewalk – even for short distances when parking
  
• I do park it on the sidewalk and tie it to bike posts with a chain lock
  
• I would not ride it on the bike trails in the parks. Legal or not, I just don’t think it belongs there with joggers, roller bladders, and other cyclists.
  
• I do ride in the bike lanes on city streets. I tend to use the area of the bike lane furthest from the curb, will defer to cyclists as appropriate, and if passing a cyclist, may leave the bike lane to pass.
  

Appreciate that these guidelines may not work for all, but that’s what I do and I have never had flak from a cyclist or motorist.

okay then I am not making myself clear (happens a lot)

Re: •Labeling people who ride E-scooters as ‘handicapped’ is offensive;

It should be Offensive. That is the whole point here.

IF the Ontario Government came out with Legislation that states Mirrors are not allowed in Cars. Wouldn't that make the Car a dangerous vehicle to operate and therefore the Driver is Handicapped (I cannot think of better term, maybe Impaired would work as well).

IF the Legislation states 20 MPH for an E-Scooter. Then it follows suit that your E-Scooter places you as the driver at risk of physical injury or death when the 2 ton vehicles around you are going 25 mph.

So your E-Scooter "Handicaps" you doesn't it?

I'm not referring to people as being physically impaired as in needing a wheelchair or being fed corn flakes via a tube. Even Lance Armstrong would be "Handicapped" if what he drives makes him travel at a speed lower than the cars around him.

E-Scooter owners SHOULD be Offended by a Law that says 20 MPH for E-Scooters but E-Bikes are free to go 25 or 30 MPH if they use their cranks.

Any clearer?

Gotta get to bed fast, the wife has a 1:00 am curfew and if I'm not in bed by 1:10 am I get a long lecture.

If you are trying to elicit a knee-jerk response so that people pay more attention your posts, hey, go ahead, call them handicapped.

If you are trying to educate, or inform, or persuasively argue, maybe drop the inflammatory word choice?

I understand your point BTW, about e-scoots "handicapping" their riders with a too-low speed limit. I think that the speed limit should be the speed limit, regardless of the electric modality.

But I had to work HARDER to get your point, to move past your poor word choice.

Just my 2c

Gordon (Hi Locke)