Toronto E-bike Riders Group Message Board Ontario E-bike Laws › Toronto By-law Chapter 765 TAXATION, PERSONAL VEHICLE TAX

Toronto By-law Chapter 765 TAXATION, PERSONAL VEHICLE TAX

lOCk
Posted Jul 24, 2010 1:36 PM
lOCk
Toronto, ON
Post #: 909
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Seen here:
http://www.toronto.ca...

§ 765-2. Definitions.
MOTOR-ASSISTED BICYCLE — A bicycle that:
(1) Is fitted with pedals that are operable at all times to propel the bicycle;
(2) Weighs not more than 55 kilograms;
(3) Has no hand- or foot-operated clutch or gearbox driven by the motor and
transferring power to the driven wheel;
(4) Has an attached motor driven by electricity or having a piston displacement of
not more that 50 cubic centimetres; and
(5) Does not have sufficient power to enable the bicycle to attain a speed greater
than 50 kilometres per hour on level ground within a distance of two
kilometres from a standing start.

§ 765-7. Amount of tax.
A. Tax is payable at the following rates:
(1) $60 in respect of a passenger car;
(2) $60 in respect of a light commercial vehicle;
(3) $30 in respect of a motorcycle;
(4) $30 in respect of a limited-speed motorcycle; and
(5) $30 in respect of a motor-assisted bicycle.
B. Notwithstanding § 765-7A, where tax is payable on a payment date on which the
holder renews for a two-year period of validation, tax is payable on that payment
date at the following rates:
(1) $120 in respect of a passenger car;
(2) $120 in respect of a light commercial vehicle;
(3) $60 in respect of a motorcycle;
(4) $60 in respect of a limited-speed motorcycle; and
(5) $60 in respect of a motor-assisted bicycle.


shock confused angry

lock
Jordan H. Green
Posted Jul 24, 2010 4:02 PM
JordanHGreen
North York, ON
Post #: 45
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Thanks to out-going Mayor David Miller, the city is looking at grabbing as much money as it can from residents to pay for his mis-management of the city.

Though I agree ebikes -- I think even regular bicycles should be licensed -- I don't believe in taxing environmentally-friendly forms of transportation.

Tax levies should be placed on modes of transport which are BAD for the environment -- such as a carbon tax on people that drive massive Hummer's and 4X4 vehicles.

Licensing of ebikes, scooter-style ebikes, and even regular bicycles for a nominal licensing fee (it should be a fee to offset the management of the licensing program and no more) is a good thing. It provides the starting blocks to build safer roads and pedestrian walkways, by providing a mechanism for training, education and enforcement of safe cycling practices.

A $60 fee every two years doesn't seem too bad -- but the reasoning behind it seems fishy. I bet it'll go into the city's general taxation pool, which is used for everything from paving pot holes, to paying for corporate lunches for our civil servants.

If the fees collected were used exclusively to promote safe and responsible riding, I'd be for it.
lOCk
Posted Jul 24, 2010 4:26 PM
lOCk
Toronto, ON
Post #: 910
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http://www.toronto.ca...
Bicycle Licensing History

On May 20, 1935 the City of Toronto passed a bylaw to license residents owning and using bicycles on the highways of the City.

The licensing process was quite complicated. Cyclists had to apply for a license through City Hall. Then the cyclist was required to go to a police station and have a police officer inspect the bicycle and fill out paperwork. That paper work was returned to City Hall and a license was granted. The cyclists then had to return a duplicate license to the same Police Inspector where the bicycle was examined. Then a metal plate was issued for the year and affixed to the mudguard of the bike.

Any time the cyclist moved or transferred or exchanged his bike, the new information had to be filed. The cost of the yearly license was 50 cents and the fine for not having a license on your bicycle was $5.00.

On February 4, 1957, City Council repealed the bicycle licensing by-law in the City. At that time, there was a communication from the Canada Cycle and Motor Company Limited suggesting the City use the services of the Bicycle Guild Incorporated to administer bicycle licensing.

At that time, the City opted out of bicycle licensing, stating amongst other issues that "licensing of bicycles be discontinued because it often results in an unconscious contravention of the law at a very tender age; they also emphasize the resulting poor public relations between police officers and children". Nathan Phillips was the Mayor at the time and it is his signature on the by-law amendment.

The City of Toronto has investigated licensing cyclists on at least three occasions in the recent past:

1984: focus on bike theft
1992: focus on riding on sidewalks, traffic law compliance and couriers
1996: focus on riding on sidewalks, traffic law compliance and couriers
Licensing in the nineties has been most often discussed in response to concerns for pedestrian safety on sidewalks, where incidents of collisions, near misses, and a lack of courtesy have made many pedestrians, including seniors feel insecure.

Each time the City has rejected licensing as a solution to the problem under discussion.

The major reasons why licensing has been rejected are:

The difficulty in keeping a database complete and current
The difficulty in licensing children, given that they ride bikes too
Licensing in and of itself does not change the behaviour of cyclists who are disobeying traffic laws.

*********************************************************


I would think the same reasoning can be applied to ebikes... AFAIK this latest (2008 I believe) By-law has never been enforced with regards to ebikes... I would like to see ebikes removed from this By-law.

Amusing though to see City bureaucrats and lawyers dreaming up their own definition for power-assist!
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lOCk
Posted Jul 25, 2010 6:29 AM
lOCk
Toronto, ON
Post #: 913
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Earlier I said:
I would like to see ebikes removed from this By-law.

Here is a list of Toronto City Councillors that might initiate this change (Name, Ward and committee with position if Chair etc):

Raymond Cho
Ward 42 Scarborough-Rouge River
Board of Health

Janet Davis
Ward 31 Beaches-East York
Board of Health (Vice-Chair)

Frank Di Giorgio
Ward 12 York South-Weston
Planning and Growth Management Committee

Mike Feldman
Ward 10 York Centre
Licensing and Standards Committee

John Filion
Ward 23 Willowdale
Board of Health (Chair)
Planning and Growth Management Committee

Rob Ford
Ward 2 Etobicoke North
Licensing and Standards Committee

Paula Fletcher
Ward 30 Toronto-Danforth
Board of Health

A.A.(Adrian) Heaps
Ward 35 Scarborough Southwest
Toronto Cycling Committee (Chair)

Norm Kelly
Ward 40 Scarborough Agincourt
Planning and Growth Management Committee (Chair)

Chin Lee
Ward 41 Scarborough-Rouge River
Board of Health

Peter Milczyn
Ward 5 Etobicoke-Lakeshore
Planning and Growth Management Committee

Denzil Minnan-Wong
Ward 34 Don Valley East
Licensing and Standards Committee

Howard Moscoe
Ward 15 Eglinton-Lawrence
Licensing and Standards Committee (Chair)

Gord Perks
Ward 14 Parkdale-High Park
Board of Health

Anthony Perruzza
Ward 8 York West
Licensing and Standards Committee

Bill Saundercook
Ward 13 Parkdale-High Park
Toronto Pedestrian Committee (Co-Chair)

David Shiner
Ward 24 Willowdale
Licensing and Standards Committee

Karen Stintz
Ward 16 Eglinton-Lawrence
Toronto Pedestrian Committee

Michael Thompson
Ward 37 Scarborough Centre
Planning and Growth Management Committee

Adam Vaughan
Ward 20 Trinity-Spadina
Planning and Growth Management Committee

List of Councillors with their contact information here:
http://app.toronto.ca...

Not sure of your Ward/Councillor? Wards map/search here:
http://app.toronto.ca...

tks
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Jim Thompson
Posted Jul 25, 2010 11:34 PM
user 12309369
Toronto, ON
Post #: 4
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The City of Toronto has investigated licensing cyclists on at least three occasions in the recent past:

1984: focus on bike theft
1992: focus on riding on sidewalks, traffic law compliance and couriers
1996: focus on riding on sidewalks, traffic law compliance and couriers
Licensing in the nineties has been most often discussed in response to concerns for pedestrian safety on sidewalks, where incidents of collisions, near misses, and a lack of courtesy have made many pedestrians, including seniors feel insecure.

Each time the City has rejected licensing as a solution to the problem under discussion.

The major reasons why licensing has been rejected are:

The difficulty in keeping a database complete and current
The difficulty in licensing children, given that they ride bikes too
Licensing in and of itself does not change the behaviour of cyclists who are disobeying traffic laws.

*********************************************************


I think that buy having a numbered plate on all typre of bikes you would see traditional bike rider MORE aware that their antics could be traced back to them.
outkastland
Posted Jul 26, 2010 3:04 PM
outkastland
Toronto, ON
Post #: 181
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I take it they will collect this tax at the point of sale?

I notice it says 55 kilograms for max weight. Did they just change the bylaw and make any bike that weighs over that illegal?

lOCk
Posted Jul 26, 2010 3:37 PM
lOCk
Toronto, ON
Post #: 918
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I take it they will collect this tax at the point of sale?
This is the first I've seen of this and I find it a bit bizarre. All the other vehicles require Provincial licences, and I know for cars at least it is tacked onto license plate renewals if the owners address is in Toronto. But ebikes??? I seriously doubt the retailers are collecting this and not telling their customers? And watt about Year Two or Three after sale??? We need to get this bad law off the books!

I notice it says 55 kilograms for max weight. Did they just change the bylaw and make any bike that weighs over that illegal?

I just find this all too bizarre. Some bloody City employee slipped ebikes in there just `cause they have motors. The "Big News" at the time would have been all about how car owners were gonna be asked to pay. Pretty much doubt the media even mentioned ebikes at the time as also covered.

The way I read the definition, if yer ebike weights more than 55kg then it's not caught in that definition so no license applies biggrin

Far as I can tell this is a law that is un-enforceable. Betcha if you presented yourself at City Hall to pay this ebike fee City staffers wouldn't know watt to do with you...
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Fred
Posted Jul 26, 2010 3:40 PM
user 4430865
Toronto, ON
Post #: 97
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My interpretation of all this is that the part about Motor Assisted Bicycle is aimed directly at Moped's which do need to be licenced. The description in the Toronto bylaw is almost a direct copy of the MTO's description of Motor-Assisted Bicycles (Mopeds) at http://www.mto.gov.on....

The only difference I can see is the MTO web site says:
has a piston displacement of not more that 50 cubic centimetres;

while the Toronto bylaw says:
Has an attached motor driven by electricity or having a piston displacement of not more that 50 cubic centimetres;

Not sure why they added the 'driven by electricity', but this can't be a good thing.

For now, I don't see how they could charge/collect such a tax on unlicensed vehicles such as E-Bikes (also defined at the MTO web site).

Note that the licensing of both the vehicle and the riders of Mopeds is pretty much what killed them.
Vic
Posted Jul 26, 2010 5:19 PM
user 10487929
Group Organizer
Toronto, ON
Post #: 221
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I think Fred makes a very good point here. As for why they added 'driven by electricity', makes sense. There are electric mopeds also like this EVT bikes http://evtcanada.ca/e... Which do need to be licensed. So perhaps vehicles such as these were the target of the law and not ebikes

Also worth noting that the date on the document Lock posted is "The effective date of this chapter shall be September 1, 2008" Which is before the pilot project was over. Although the wording in that document can be easily amended to included ebikes. Which wouldn't be a good thing for us.

Fred already posted one link. However reading point 16 here http://www.mto.gov.on... might clear things up a bit.


If the vehicle was manufactured before September 1, 1988 and does not have a label, you will be able to identify it as a limited-speed motorcycle by the following:

* Electric or gas powered
* Maximum speed of 70 km/h
* Automatic transmission
* Has a "step through" vehicle design
* Maximum engine displacement of 50 cubic centimetres or less.

-Vic
lOCk
Posted Jul 26, 2010 7:45 PM
lOCk
Toronto, ON
Post #: 919
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I think (turns out) we (ebikes) are OK. Not caught up in this... I could regurgitate a couple of years of City staff reports and Council and Executive Committee meeting minutes, but here is the executive summary:

From July 2007:
Presentation to Council on July 16, 2007, entitled “New Taxation Measures - City of Toronto Act”, submitted by the Deputy City Manager and Chief Financial Officer.
(EX10.1b)
http://www.toronto.ca...


and around the same time another staff report basically saying the same thing...

Then City Council kicked it around a bit...

In October 2007 Councillor Walker moved that the Item:
D. be amended by adding the following:
All environmentally friendly vehicles (i.e., hybrid vehicles, hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles, electric vehicles), mopeds and scooters, be exempted from the City of Toronto Personal Vehicle Ownership Tax.

But this got voted down confused

For the record:
Adoption of motion 2D by Councillor Walker:

Yes - 20
Councillors: Ainslie, Augimeri, Del Grande, Feldman, Ford, Holyday, Jenkins, Lee, Milczyn, Minnan-Wong, Moscoe, Nunziata, Ootes, Palacio, Parker, Saundercook, Shiner, Stintz, Thompson, Walker

No - 25
Mayor: Miller
Councillors: Ashton, Bussin, Carroll, Cho, Davis, De Baeremaeker, Di Giorgio, Filion, Fletcher, Giambrone, Grimes, Hall, Heaps, Kelly, Lindsay Luby, Mammoliti, McConnell, Mihevc, Moeser, Pantalone, Perks, Perruzza, Rae, Vaughan

Lost by a majority of 5.


So Council approved the thing at that time as:
i. $60 per personal vehicle per year;
ii. $30 per personal motorcycle or moped per year;
iii. $0 for personal motorized snow vehicles and historic vehicles.


...then kicked it back to City staff to get into negotiations with the Province as to how the Prov would collect these fees on behalf of the City...

And City staff finally reported back in April 2008. After their negotiations with the Province they had fine-tuned their categories a bit:
o Passenger car = $60
o Light commercial vehicle (as defined above) = $60
o Motorcycle or Limited Speed Motorcycle = $30
o Motor Assisted Bicycles (Moped) = $30
o Personal Motorized Snow Vehicles and Historic Vehicles = $0

So it's still odd that the City feels it needs to come up with its own definition for certain vehicles, but it looks like the intent was to stay in line with Provincial licensing requirements to keep things simple.

Cheers
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